Phoenix and his EQII Beta - Part 2

[Phoenix]

Okay, so I've had more time to play the game. And I must say that I was vastly mistaken. I have managed to go on epic quests that took me over the mountains of Wherever and allowed me to slay the mighty dragon of Something with my ridiculously powerful Sword of Uber-Craziness. Yes, this game is exactly as I have imagined.

Actually, I haven't played any more of the game. I'm sorry. I know there has been a lot of anger (or just one person being angry because his mother didn't hug him enough when he was little) because of the fact that I, a person who has never played an MMORPG before, has managed to get into Beta. I have a little something to say about that.

Were you born a veteran of MMORPGs? Some of you must have been because you sure seem to hate the idea that other players don't have your breadth of experience or share your passion for the genre. I've never played any MMORPG and I'm discouraged from starting with this game because of the 'not-warm' welcome that new people seem to get. My first post here in 1969 (check the date) was in a thread I started called "I hate everquest" (the real thread for that is actually here). Was I serious? No. But we had like 20 members and I figured why not. 2 and a half years later, the site has grown a little bit and an ugly minority feels that they must defend their game from every fanboi who comes along.

I am no stranger to fanboism as I am an Xbox owner and have faced (and dished out, I'll admit) my fair share of the "My system r0x0rs" mentality. But no where have I seen such devotion as I have seen here. I'll be honest, that is what drew me to the game initially. Talking to people who played EQ for what seems like an impossible amount of time and hearing their stories made me wish that I had been playing the game. There were stories that I wish I could have gotten tapes of because they seemed like such amazing things to actually experience in a game that I wanted to share them with my friends. The road, however, was closed. Everyone I knew who had played EQ was no longer playing and those who still did play were such high level that I would not be able to explore the game with them. Hence, EQ2. This would be my chance, my time to create my own adventures and stories to share with friends at E3 or at a LAN.

The more I read, the more I realize that I can't even jump into this game from a standstill like I had hoped. You guys speak a whole different language. You have libraries of knowledge that scare the living bejesus out of me, but I feel like I should get college credit for trying to learn it. Maybe there is something to be said for jumping in early and having the time to devote to learning the game. What do you think, is it possible that there is a cutoff for playing a game such as this? Are new players going to be handicapped because they have to learn all of the mechanics? Will that handicap matter?

I don't really know what I am saying anymore, all of this political coverage is making the gray matter between my ears a bit watery. I'm going to play the beta some more and see if I can find something in it that holds my interest. So I ask you, o wise players of MMORPGs, what is there to do in this world that you love? What do you recommend a new player do?

[spideygenx]

thats a great post. i can assure u that i felt a little bit like that when i logged into my very first mmorpg world (eqlive). what i can tell u though from my experience is that there are far more players that love to help the new guy out than there are noob haters or whatever u wanna call them. So u shouldnt feel as if everybody is gonna hate u cuz ur new. As for EQ2, the game u r trying out now, i think u just need to play and feel and see everything u can in the game and talk to people. Just experience the game without thinking to urself im new or its hard or whatever u feel when u play. I think if u learn to play at ur pace and meet a couple people u can adventure with u will feel much better about it. i hope this helped u. i would hate to see a good person leave because a few bad apples got to u.

[Ilowen T'Cirele]

The thing I see now about EQ that I sort of fear may not exist in EQ 2 is the chaos. In EQ 2, though I am not in beta, so much effort has been set forth to create a perfect world, a world in which classes are equal and all needed or at least useful in groups. Where people must group to thrive, the fear I face is that I am worried EQ 2 lacks what made EQ something else. The chaos. In EQ no one was equal, everyone was overpowered, nothing was ordered. What began with the slaughter of countless gnolls, kobolds, orcs and fire beetles quickly spread to hill giants, sarnaks, bloodgill goblins. Vox and Nagafen, lord and lady of the lands, became non-trivial. Trakanon, the destroyer of empires, the banished, became not worth the run to Sebilis. The once magnificent temple of Veeshan became the Halls of Trash. We hit only our 4th expansion, by the time the gods became challengeable, their planes, their essences, became physical to us, destroyable to us. The elusive Mayong and his countless catacombs, became the general haunt for people, as did the destroyed halls of Takish'Hiz, the now ashen kingdom of the elven empire. The gods became non-trivial as we entered an expansion bold enough to bare the acronym GoD itself, and it too, became nothing. Now even the greatest halls of of the realm of the very chaos that fed us all our power, is being plundered as we speak by countless guilds in countless realities.

In EQ, equilibrium was maintained, not by carefully balancing the classes to mirror themselves in dark and good motives, but simply by creating classes, by creating monsters, and then letting chaos create order. Be it Inte, the invincible paladin, who later lay slain upon that floating sky, or Kerafyrm; the Crystaline; the Chaos; the Corpse. When Lord Inquisitor Seru died, before he was implemented in the game, this was our day - our glory - people cared more about the destruction of these, the impossible made possible, the dreams of seeing these things themselves, then they did their outside lives. Nothing mattered but how much hp Furor now had, word of the latest scamming technique to guard yourself against in EC. You could be a 14 year old geek every hour of the day, or you could log in as the officer to a guild of people that enjoyed your company, and plan, and be heard, on how to counter a rival guilds ambush in waiting in the next zone. Your wife could want to string you from the ceiling fan for your wrong doings, but your EQ friends would stand by you and laugh and joke and boost each others ego with a night of slaughtering a thousand Deathfist Orcs.

EQ was a perpetually exploding nuclear bomb, once you got over the immeasurable chaos, it was one hell of a light show.

My extremely long winded point being, while my adventures may now end, yours can just begin, but you only will get what you give, if you honestly make friends, if you honestly care for the honor, or title, or deeds of your guild, if you make the game yours like all the people that slaughtered those believed to be immune - it doesn't matter if it's a MUD or EQ, or WoW or EQ 2 - all that matters in the end of the day - is which community you think you suit. As for the EQ community and from all the people I've met in the soon-to-be EQ 2 community, I can tell you, if I could spend my time with them instead of IRL, it wouldn't be a question. That says a hell of a lot, I'm can be a social butterfly, I have so many IRL friends I don't have the time to keep in touch with them all, and yet I still have too many. So when I say I wouldn't even give it a thought to leave them all for the people I've met in a video game, online, that I've never met IRL, to me - that says everything I need to know about EQ, and EQ II.

[Nandyna]

I can see where you're coming from, but quite frankly I don't agree with the whole mood of the post. I joined EQ in dec 1999, a complete newb to the mmog experience. You could say, but hey EQ was released that same year, wasn't everyone a newb? Not when i joined, which was a couple of months after release. Already there were uber toons with swords of mega uberness, which filled me with awe. But the lesson number one in MMOGS, which I learnt quite soon, was to ask politely for advise. 99% of the players I have contacted for advise on what gear I needed at a set level or what mobs to hunt was more than happy to help. And once I got to raiding level and was a complete encyclopedia on all things "rogue", whenever someone asked me nicely, I was more than happy to share the information and even help with gear I did not use anympre and kept in the bank just for that purpose. Mind you, I am not a kind soul born to help others, I can be as bad a female dog as anyone else, but that was just the way I was treated when i was a newb, and it was gratifying to return the favour and make someone's day.

Now onto EQ2: I admit to being a complete Newbie, and haven't spent months of my life in beta. On top of that I am currently playing a priest class for the first time ever so all the stuff I had read on scouts was of no use. At lvl 8, yesterday for the first time I grouped. Was I nervous? Hell yeah. Even at low level I had that healer's rush for the thrill of keeping my buddies alive. Did I know how to do it? Of course not. I apologized and asked questions on how to do stuff. I even thought i was supposed to create an assist hotkey like in the old EQLive.

With EQ2 we're all learning. And to play your class well, and this is true for any MMOG, all the lore in the world counts for expletive deleted. You'll ohfk up at the start, whatever class you play. But just make sure to be polite and to acknowledge your mistakes and unless you're so unlucky to end up in group with dumb nice fellows then you should be fine. Don't abandon a game you like just because there are tons of people who know more stuff about you. The majority of the people who will play at launch will be complete newbs just like you. And let me tell you something: Your days as a newbie are going to be the best: You will remember them throughout your gaming career as the most fun and awe inspiring. Sure, others might know all the mechanics, lore and what not, but you will have that unique and brief feeling everyone had when first playing an MMOG.

Whoa, that was a long one, but I think it was a worthwile post.

Hugs'n'Kisses

Nan

[SiD_uk]

I agree totally.

I'm one of those you may call a 'veteran', having had the excellent chance that I beta'd the original Everquest. But finding myself coming late into the Eq2 beta I fnd myself a complete and utter newbie again. Having only joined when fileplanet released keys I've only been playing a week or so.

My previous (and extensive) experiance has only prepared me a little for this game, and I find my self asking alot of question. I rememb playing games like SWG AO DAOC and not being so overwhelmed like I have been in EQ2. I've found the majority of people very helpfull (usually the original beta testers too) and even my original experiance in the original game of everquest only basically taught me how to move and mabbe interact with the UI.

Ever time you start a new game you are considered a newbie ... no matter your experiance in other game you are still new to this one. The fact you have no experiance in other MMORPG's is just as valuble to SOE as the experianced people. As in reality they are trying to attract new players as well as older ones so they have to know how the game treats new players, so I see SoE valuing your imput as much as anyone elses and you have just as much right (infact more right imo) to be in the beta test too.

I agree with the above poster, I think upon my best memorys of online gaming as the first few months in the MMORPG scene don't like people get ya down... there is always some one who thinks they know more are better than you because of it, tis the way of online gaming at every step.

[Nismo]

There is a certain level of Fanboy-ism in every game, EQ2 doesn't lack it, certainly. But I don't think it is half as bad as WoW. You should feel lucky you decided to start in this community as opposed to a WoW community. I haven't played EQ2 yet, so I am not free to comment. I have played MMOs since 1998 Ultima Online. I don't think that makes me any better than you. Just chill and don't let people get on your nerves. Everyone wants to hold their own opinion above everyone else, and to try to validate their superiority they mention their seniority in the genre. It's not a valid argument and you can completely disregard it.

/me hands Phoenix a chill pill.

[Akherat]

Phoenix -
Something you need to consider here - you're on a fan site for a game that hasn't hit store shelves, and has a prequel that spans 5 years. There are throngs of avid MMORPG players that follow the course of new titles like a pack of slavering hounds following the trail of a wounded animal. They are avid, some more maniacal about their passion for MMO gaming than others, but all with a vested interest, and the majority of those with that interest have it because of significant experience.

There are going to be thousands upon thousands of people who pick it up off the shelf during the opening days that haven't played EQ or any other MMO. When you're talking about beta for something like this, the overwhelming majority of players are going to be experienced gamers, particularly MMO gamers - they are the ones who follow development and sign up for beta programs.

You will not be alone on launch day - there will be many other "true newbs" running around on isle of refuge looking like a deer in headlights, and there will be herds of experienced EQ gamers looking to power their way through the island and get on to the main cities. The first couple of weeks, I'm sure there will be many people who end up calling it "Gilligan's Isle".

If you want to know what is going to drive interest look at it as a true social experiment - you have 1,000 experienced players, 400 neophytes and 600 true newbs. Mix together. It's going to be fascinating to watch the social dynamic start to form.

As for me, I'll be keeping an eye out and populating my friends list with people that are taking the time to stop and help the true newbs get a leg up without being condescending jerks. Those are the people that aren't out to "win the game" in the shortest time possible, but are there to experience what the game has to offer in their own time. Opening days is a good time to meet and group with lots of different people, and to start forming some bonds that will make the first families, fellowships and guilds. Opening days aren't about # of quests, levels, gear, etc., its about people.

[Ziah]

I've played EQ for too damn long. The only thing that kept me coming back is roleplay, honestly. Yeah, I know. Boo roleplay. I've read all the "why rp is ghei" posts. ;-)

But seriously, I found the elitism, the jargon - all of that - a LOT cumbersome and lame. It took a long time to figure out what things meant, and the way people communicated with one another. But the magic of interacting with other people made it worthwhile. Sure you have your idiot teenage boys who speak in acronyms (and having played for "too damn long", I still don't know what tons of them mean), but there are gems here and there. If all you want is achievement and action nonstop, sure, play first person shooters. But if you want a sense of team and connection with others, then I think an MMOG is for you.

I think that every game has its own culture, and even every server. I found after transferring to a new EQ server, for example, that when you get a new aa point on that server, you say to your friends, "AA ding." On my old server you said, "Ping!". And that's just one very subtle difference. There are glaring ones sometimes, too. So I think that no matter what game you try, no matter how experienced or inexperienced you are, there will be a time in the beginning where the culture of the game is shaped. There are kind of universal terms now that apply in any MMOG, like "mob", "aggro", etc, but even still. There are things that will be unique to each game, too.

My advice to you is to ask yourself if interaction with other real, live (presumably alive) people is important in a game, for you. If the answer is no, then don't waste your time learning the language of MMOGs. But if you want to watch the creativity of other players unfold, or you want to compete against them to be the "best", then persevere. Because at the core, it's going to be the people that make the difference and make you want to play.

Tanthian in EQ
Na'Dina in SWG
Katharyn in DAoC
Ziah in CoH
(played too many games!)

[smak]

just one quick question. how and or why is this guy a moderator?

[BeanFondler]

Phoenix is way cooler than I'll ever be...

Pobre cito...

[Katrizu]

Let me start by saying I don't have time to read everyones replys so if i repeat something sorry.

I was a true Newb to MMORPGs when I started EQLive about 2 years ago. It was a little rough to begin with because my only RL friend I knew that played stopped playing for a while right when I started so I was Completely alone. Being in Beta for EQ2 I will talk more about that game because that is the one that matters to you right now. The tutorial is a great way to learn the game and the Island of Refuge is nothing more than a continuation of that tutorial ANYONE that wants to play a MMORPG with no prior experience this is probably one of the BEST tutorials that will help you get used to the play style of MMORPGs. As far as the community of people yes there are those out there that think they are the best and they own the world of Norrath because they have been MMORPG Vets for a long time. I found in EQ and hopefully will continue in EQ2 that these people are the ones that tend to Powergame and are in the big high end guilds that only care about getting things done first and being the best. To me this isn't important and I luckily found people in EQ that shared my mentality and they helped me get into the game and helped me out. In turn over my 2 years of play I became one of the higher lvls in the guild I joined and I turned around and helped the new players/low levels (granted by this time ther wasn't many true newbs around) I think if you join EQ2 you will find that the Uber people and the hard core talking vets are the ones you will probably avoid unless you get into the powergamer style in which case you will most likely become one of them in time =P

The point is yes there are many people that can be hostile to new players (newbs) but there are also people that love to help out true newbs and try to make the game more enjoyable for them. I am one of these people and you will find me hanging in EQ2 with people of like mind.

Xanumten 15 season sorcerer Beta 1
Proud Seeker of the Storm
Clan WhiteStorm

[Phoenix]

Wow, I want to thank you guys. That was a lot more than I had expected. A few of you mentioned that moving between games is almost like becoming a newb each time, which I guess gives you a bit of an edge. I've mainly been an FPS player, and there is not much of a difference at all between them. Granted, different weapons, different types of levels, different mechanics, but they are still all point and click. But that is why I wanted to try an MMORPG.

I tried EVE for a while, and played it for several hours for the first few days. I joined a corporation, was making money, had bought a better ship and actually helped fight in a fairly large battle. But then my four day weekend ended, I had to go back to school and work and I fell too far behind my corporation mates to be much use. Then I stopped playing.

That is why scares me about EQ2. I guess I could just solo, but damnit, I want to be in a group. Are there enough groups out there for the really casual gamer? The one that will only have a night or two at most a week to jump on and play? I'm about to head out to my chem lab, but I'm going to try to put a few hours into EQ2 tonight and see if I can actually talk to some people.

Once again, thanks for the posts guys.

[Akherat]

Phoenix-
Yes, there are going to be casual players who only play a couple of nights a week and maybe for a few hours on the weekend. My best friend and I are 2 of them - my wife is still undecided if she will play or not, although I think eventually she will. One of the reasons I left EQ 1 was because my guild raided 5 nights a week, and it was all I could do to hold down job, family, raids, sleeping, eating and commuting to work on a relatively sane schedule. I burned out, and with EQ 2 being so close, I just retired. I don't want to play the 20+ hours a week like I did in EQ 1. I'll be fine with around 10 hours a week, including weekends, sometimes more, sometimes less. That and Halo 2 should keep my gaming free time pretty well wrapped up.

Over time, you tend to "fall into" the community of players with similar schedules and lifestyles - that is key...you have to find the people with similar play times and schedules. I'm sure, like with most online games, there will be a huge crowd of binge players who will play 30 or 40 hours a week for the first month or so. Patience, perseverance, and good management of your friends list in the beginning days is very important. You have got to make note of the people you enjoyed grouping with, and seek them out later on. It's not unlike putting together a counterstrike team, or a regular group for Rainbow Six, which you might be more familiar with.

Nothing wrong with being a newb - everyone was there at least once. If we end up on the same server, I'd be happy to group with you. MMO's are all about the community. They are 1000x better when you regularly play with people you get along with.

[Akuri]

I totally understand your pain.... I started EQlive back a few months after its innitial release... To me it was insane trying to find my way around the dark forests of Nektulos (spelling)... I too was overwhelmed with all that I was hit with at once... My only thoughts to you are don't give up... It only gets better... As far as EQ2 goes... Try not to worry about all the fanboi's out there and the "rush to 50" powergamers... Just take your time... make some friends... and enjoy the new world of norath... Having been playing the beta myself... This game is different enough from the orginal EQ that we will all be learning how things work and what to do again... For every one lame person you meet, remember there is another person just like you just across the field... wanting a new friend...

[Zeonic]

I haven't played the game yet, isn't it supposed to kind of help you along? starting out rather narrow and giving you more skills and choices as you go?

[GridPoet]

Just so you know phoenix there definetly are some guilds out there that are for the "causual" gamer...I would know because i run one...

Come check us out.

We have about 4 complete mmorpg newbs in our guild now and as every one with a brain knows....theres always room for one more newb!

[Hiply]

Well, this is my first post here...and come launch I'll be one of those "complete" newbs being mesmerized by the sights and sounds and flavor of a place that's completely new to me. Phoenix, those newb days, filled with wonder and magic and "wow, what is that?!?" will, as someone else pointed out, be the most memorable of your days here. After 3 years in Asheron's Call, ultimately leading a monarchy of close to 1000, the most remembered days for me were still the first days of being wowed as I "portal-slid" into the game. That sense of wonder. As I moved on to beta AC2, DAoC, and AO...that same sense of wonder (even in betas where the testing factor often intruded) persisted. I dropped out of the sword and sorcery genre awhile, stopping off in Earth and Beyond for a year...then on to SWG, where I stayed from launch until a month ago...always waiting for the "right" place again. I think EQII will be it. My lady and I are in DAoC right now killing time until later this week, when we join a new world, to make new friends, and feel that wonderful rush of "the new" again.

You'll find your casual gamers, Phoenix...trust me...and you'll come to look forward to that couple of times a week when you hook up with them and have at it. Some advice:

Don't get hung up too much on "I have to make that next level". Don't be "too" jealous of those folks you see zipping past wearing obviously extreme gear as they head off to slay the "Uber Beast of Beauty" or some-such. Don't worry too much about what's over that next hill...you'll get there

Do enjoy the wonder and newness. Do talk to people, often. Do enjoy the community and shared thrills and wonder. Do enjoy being part of something greater than the individual. And most importantly, do let your eyes and ears take it all in, be a newb and enjoy it...be the wide-eyed kid from the boonies who is in the big city for the first time and stare at the skyscrapers a bit!

I don't know where my lady and I will land...but we'll be here, and like many many others, we'll be more than happy to talk, to help, to laugh a bit with you, and to share the good times.

Peace

[Coyotee]

[Hiply]

It's a small world, Coyotee...perhaps we will