:: Updated by Hannar @ 01/20/04 07:03 pm ::

17. Leveling


08-17-2003 at 03:23 AM
http://www.eqlounge.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17924#post17924

Moorgard wrote:

I agree that the whole disparity in leveling between EQ and EQ2 is confusing. I'll look into it some more next week and see what I can turn up.

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:39 am
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=83463&highlight=#83463

Moorgard wrote:

We won't put caps on levelling pace. If you want to play constantly and level up, you can certainly do that. What I did allude to was the fact that we have other requirements for advancing in levels besides pure exp. There are certain obligations that must be fulfilled, and what those are will depend partly on what skills the player has decided to pursue.

Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:56 am
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=83483&highlight=#83483

Moorgard wrote:

Trendor wrote: Screwed is by persective and mine is as valid as yours. For two perspectives to be equally valid, they must be equally informed. When you can actually play the finished game, you will have a more substantial basis for making such claims. I have never said *anywhere* that there wouldn't be wandering mobs. Not one single time have I ever stated that. There is no hard limit that prevents you from levelling up at whatever pace you want. However, if what you are implying is that twinking and powerlevelling as it was done in EQ won't be the same in our game, then you are correct. That said, of course levelling up a second character will be easier than it was the first time. You will presumably be able to afford the best gear for your new character's level, which will naturally make that character more efficient. You just won't be putting level 50 gear on a level 5 character.

Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:42 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=83553&highlight=#83553

Moorgard wrote:

michee wrote: think about it, if i get to 60 in 3 weeks, without full skills, and you get to 40 in 3 weeks with max skills, it still takes me less time to get full skills than it takes you to get the last 20 levels and i can work the skills up during the plevel if i want. That's one of the things we're changing. You won't see high-level characters with low numbers in their primary skills.

Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:37 am
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=86460&highlight=#86460

Moorgard wrote:

Heck, *I* wouldn't buy EQ2 if it didn't have the classic ding! I hear both the ding and quest sounds many, many times per day. Never fails to warm my heart.

Fri Oct 17, 2003 03:32 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=117773&highlight=#117773

Moorgard wrote:

Hannar Stormwolf wrote: Yep. It's been stated in two or three places (some long ago) that players would be able to skip the tutorial type introduction to the archetypes. Yes, this is correct. And it's the only type of jumping that we intend to allow players to do. The boat intro and the Isle of Refuge exist to allow new players to try out the various archetypes and teach the basics of how the game works. The experienced player will likely know what they want their new characters to do in the game, so forcing them to go through the tutorial again is unnecessary. However, players may want to go through the newbie experience again anyway. The Isle of Refuge is gorgeous, and has some types of scenery that players might not see again for a while.

Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:23 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=127246&highlight=#127246

Moorgard wrote:

Azrile wrote: I think the real solution is to design a game that is fun to play at all levels. Bingo. However, as someone has pointed out, there will be people who consider anything done at low levels to be a waste of time, because they have their minds locked on getting to the endgame. You should feel pity--not anger--at such people, because they're going to be missing out on some very cool stuff in EQII.

Fri Nov 14, 2003 03:35 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=136063&highlight=#136063

Moorgard wrote:

Goneril wrote: The whole changing it to 50 thing seemed to come on rather quickly. Forever they were saying 100, I hope this sudden change doesn't push the release back even further...I'm sure it will. Thats a lot of stuff that needs to be reworked... This decision was made a while ago; we're just announcing it now. For the most part, all that needed to be changed was the design documents specifying level ranges, plus the active populations for a few zones. This work is already done, and doesn't change our release date at all. The places you were supposed to be hunting at level 100 will now be hunted at 50. The amount of content doesn't change, just the level ranges intended for it. Kendricke wrote: The maximum level may never reach 100 even. I may not reach 60 for years. The point is that should the developers ever choose to advance to levels as high as 200, they won't have to re-write code or work around the engine to do so. Exactly correct. We haven't made a firm decision about how much levels will go up in the future, but we have the capability and scaling set up for it.

Sun Nov 16, 2003 09:32 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=137380&highlight=#137380

Moorgard wrote:

Legas wrote: Sorry this reduction to 50 lvls and the buy into beta thing together give me too bad an impression of SOE marketing The change to level 50 was made by the design team. Marketing had nothing to do with it.

11/13/03 11:47am
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=59571535&start=59579898

Moorgard wrote:

You're right, we changed those levels when we adjusted the cap. The way we've been playing during internal testing is as follows: Archetype: level 3 Class: level 10 Sub-class: level 20 We reserve the right to tweak this before release, but so far it seems to make sense based on the way we have the tutorial set up and how the experience curve works on those levels. By the way, this wasn't a recent decision. The new level cap has been active in game for some time, but we haven't talked about it because we wanted to make sure it worked well in practice first. Also, since it really doesn't impact the game from a content perspective, it ends up being not that big a deal. The goal is just to have the whole level system make more sense to players, and I think this will.

12/8/03 10:16am
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=60736383&start=60777656

Moorgard wrote:

We will likely have a visual element, though we tend to favor something relatively subtle.

Tue Jan 06, 2004 07:29 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=171675&highlight=#171675

Moorgard wrote:

Jotun Wanderlust wrote: No all you start off with and have to work off of is 20 hps...make it last. Careful, don't give us any ideas! Yes, you gain hitpoints as you level up.

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:45 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=174539&highlight=#174539

Moorgard wrote:

Buying spells isn't a bad thing. But when significant class spells are only available as mob drops, for instance, people tend to get upset. Shamans used to complain that malo and torpor were too rare, and because they were such important abilities for them to have they felt this was unfair. I'm not saying there won't be spells that take effort to obtain or upgrade. But the core abilities of the caster--the things that define their archetypal role--will be received automatically.

Mon Feb 23, 2004 01:48 am
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=218411&highlight=#218411

Moorgard wrote:

Cusashorn wrote: Like I said. level 6 in 30 minutes by intentional design. The Isle of Refuge is basicly the tutorial for EQ2. If you die during that time, your doing something wrong, because you really shouldn't be engaging in combat for the first 30 minutes it takes just to choose your basic archetype. You will be doing a lot of fighting (as well as filling other archetype roles) on the newbie island. And you can certainly die while you are there. You won't be level 6 in 30 minutes. You'll be level 2, possibly 3 if you're not trying out all the archetypes.

Thu Feb 26, 2004 01:59 pm
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=221942&highlight=#221942

Moorgard wrote:

Bawang wrote: I'm wondering if it will be an option to stay a commoner and keep leveling up as a commoner. As stupid as that might sound, I played another game where a few people did something similar to that. Nope. You can't ding to level 3 until you pick an archetype. Same holds true at the class and sub-class levels.

:: Updated by Hannar @ 07/03/04 02:46 pm ::

03-20-2004 12:10 AM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=12338#M12338

Moorgard wrote:

One thing you have to keep in mind with the design of most fantasy RPG games is that they're intended to mimic the classic epic journey in literature. The young, inexperienced hero sets out on a long quest, growing in power and knowledge until he can finally overcome the big bad guy and reap the rewards for doing so. In the case of RPG games, perhaps the most direct way to represent that growth is either through levels or skills. The great stories aren't about a commoner who picks up a sword one day and slays the most powerful dragon in the land a couple hours later; there has to be some path of growth for the story to have meaning. Similarly, while it would be cool from one perspective for someone to install an MMO and kill the toughest ubermob that same day, it would also make a lot of content meaningless. The thing that made my first Nagafen raid cool in EQ was not only the experience itself, but all the experiences that led up to that moment. In a great story, context is everything. Don't get me wrong; I think it's a good thing when games can make the player feel heroic from the word go. That's certainly a goal we have in the way we present our tutorial experience. But at the same time, players should feel like they're on a journey of growth and discovery. Our goal is to make that entire journey fun while still maintaining the feeling that there's something even better waiting just around the next corner.

Wed Apr 07, 2004 02:02 am
http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=252371&highlight=#252371

Moorgard wrote:

Bawang wrote: I think that was supposed to be removed and was left in by mistake. There's NO exp debt in EQ2. Right on both counts. It's just some old code that hasn't been removed yet.

04-07-2004 10:37 PM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=38220#M38220

Moorgard wrote:

Nobody made it to level 10. The pace is fairly rapid through the six or so levels you can get on the island, and after that it begins to take longer to gain levels.

4/15 11:33pm
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=67478823&start=67507487

Moorgard wrote:

We have no plans to require downtime beyond the normal need to regen/heal between fights, and there won't be any limits on how long you can hunt for XP.

04-17-2004 09:51 PM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=50478#M50478

Moorgard wrote:

Why would we have to create a mechanic to allow you to do this? If you want to complete quests and explore the world, do it. We certainly won't force you to hunt for XP if you would rather not. You generally don't get XP on accident, after all.

5/16 3:45pm
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=68922328&start=68938238

Moorgard wrote:

Nope, there are no XP penalties based on race or class.

06-21-2004 11:12 PM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=137659#M137659

Moorgard wrote:

It's a fine idea in a skill-based system, but we're a level-based game. Skills are tied to and capped by your level, so any method that allowed you to speed up the process of gaining skills would have to speed up level gain as well, which has imbalance written all over it. So to continue the musical metaphor, this notion is caught between Scylla and Charybdis.

5/28 8:38pm
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=69569326&start=69577577

Moorgard wrote:

The linear progression of character abilities is scaled out to 200 levels. Will we ever go that far? Who knows. But the math is there to support it.

:: Updated by Hannar @ 08/01/04 03:39 pm ::

07-12-2004 11:34 PM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=150927#M150927

Moorgard wrote:

Just because we've mathematically worked out a level system to 200 doesn't mean we'll ever go that far. Players inevitably start new characters and replay the early levels. We'd like to expand the breadth of our game as well as the depth, so we will not only add more and more levels but also extra content for the levels we have already. The veteran who rolls up a new character and goes through the cities again would no doubt like to venture into some new areas not seen before, and we definitely want to provide them. I wouldn't expect every expansion to bump up the level limit. There are plenty of other things we can do to add new challenges beyond just more levels.

07-22-2004 10:35 PM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general&message.id=157132#M157132

Moorgard wrote:

We changed that system. You no longer gain less points in certain skills, but instead grow equally in all of them.

07-25-2004 01:36 AM
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=19241#M19241

Moorgard wrote:

Hell levels were a mathematical error in EQ that was eventually corrected. We have no plans to intentionally reintroduce the concept.